Logo

Welcome!
All Christians and all people of thoughtful conviction welcome here!
Consider starting your own blog here--registering is as easy as entering a username and email address. Trouble registering? We'll help: info[at]catholicsfordemocracy.org

User login
· Create new account
· Request new password

Blogs
· Thank Sen. Boxer
· No US Senators for us to support?!
· Rep. Chris Smith and Republican party discipline
· Meet U.S. Rep. Tim Ryan (D-OH)
· Tsunami
· Putting Herod back into Christmas
· Catholic Values?
· Meet Rep. Chris Smith (R-NJ)
· Liberty And Justice For All: Rummy's World
· Iraq Peace Petition

Essential Links
Latest from the Vatican
US Catholic Bishops
Pax Christi USA
NETWORK Catholic Lobby
Democrats for Life
Catholic Relief Services
Sojourners

other links

Most popular
Todays top:
· No US Senators for us to support?!
· Thank Sen. Boxer
· Tsunami
· Liberty And Justice For All: Rummy's World
· Church Teaching Discussing Public Policy

Who's online
There are currently 0 users and 9 guests online.

Who's new
· Jim Bange
· karengasper
· SETHTOLAND
· lmilford
· Jpero00

Comment Posting Rules
Statement about posting blog statements or responses at CfD.

Syndicate


 Meet Rep. Chris Smith (R-NJ)  
Blog submitted by hugetim on Tue 21 Dec 2004 - 00:20 h  
Check out Chris Smith's profile at Catholics in the Public Square, a site which explicitly chooses not to discuss issues not related to abortion or homosexuals. See my comments for a fuller picture of Rep. Smith's fairly consistent Catholic record (excerpted from his Vote-Smart survey response). He has some serious shortcomings, which I did not bother to highlight at this time, but his record seems rather impressive from the perspective of Catholic teaching.

Should Catholics for Democracy support him in future elections? Please tell us what you know about him and what you think!

In my brief glance at his record, it almost seemed that his votes turned more conservative (in cases in which that meant opposing the Catholic position) near elections. If we decide to support him, we could help encourage him to stand by his Catholic convictions on every issue!
 
  hugetim's blog · add new comment

Comment viewing options:
Select your preferred way to display the comments and click 'Save settings' to submit your changes.

I personally don't support the death penalty 
Comment added by Unregistered on Wed 5 Jan 2005 - 10:00 h  
I personally don't support the death penalty Tim, however; when the Pope sees fit to change the catechism and call the supporting of the death penalty a sin, then I will change the way I vote for candidates on that issue too. I think the Pope was correct when he stated that a sinner should have all the time he needs to convert, and be sorry for his sins, and when you factor in the death penalty you are not giving him/her that time. 
reply to this comment

 
Voting and sin 
Comment added by hugetim on Wed 5 Jan 2005 - 10:36 h  
Voting decisions are complex--is the candidate's campaign platform honest and forthright, or misleading? Do the candidate's actual priorities in action and record match the most prominent campaign issues? Do you trust the person to handle unforeseen situations? Which issues will they actually have a chance to affect?

Each of these questions suggests another reason to look at a candidate's positions on all the issues. Do they demonstrate a consistent ethic of life, or do they claim a position on one particular group of issues to win over a key constituency? For these reasons, no Catholic authority has made the kind of blanket statement the conservative Catholic group Catholic Answers did, but real Catholic teachers acknowledge the possibility of proportionate reasons. In fact, while Church teachers do strongly urge us to place special emphasis on abortion, they also encourage us to look carefully at every issue. How else would we ever know if there were a proportionate reason?

There is also another reason why it is odd for you to suggest that you will only consider the death penalty if the Catechism explicitly says it is sinful to support it. The Catechism does not have an exhaustive list of sins. The Catechism does plainly indicate that killing a person through the death penalty may only be permitted as a form of self defense, that is, "if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor." (#2267) Thus, supporting killing that does not meet this condition would be a sin. Remember that this condition is not present in U.S. law and this condition is probably never met here because we have maximum security prisons for effectively restraining past aggressors. So, if you understand this teaching and know it to be true but still support the death penalty in our country, you are sinning. 
reply to this comment

Re: Rep. Smith 
Comment added by uinen on Mon 3 Jan 2005 - 20:17 h  
Hi Tim,

Rep Smith gave, for the most part, answers to the survey that I can feel comfortable with. I'm particularly impressed with his concentration on Veterans' issues and human trafficking and slave labor. I was pleased to see that he supports an increase in the minimum wage, apparently opposes NAFTA and, IRC opposes drilling in ANWAR and generally has good instincts on Environmental issues. I was disappointed that he does not support Kioto. His support for gun control could be stronger, but it's quite good, especially for a Republican. If memory serves, he opposes the death penalty, and has sensible views on the criminal justice system. One thing he supports that I adimantly oppose is the prosicution of juviniles as adults. But, as you said, he has some major problems. I guess, the only person one agrees with 100% is oneself. *grin*

As to CFD endorsing Rep. Smith... First of all, I have a big problem with a Dean inspired organization endorsing a Republican. Frankly, I would be most uncomfortable remaining in an organization that supports Republicans. Though there are a handful of Republicans whom I admire, Sen. McCane (sorry if that's misspelled) and Sen Lugar come immediatly to mind, I'm not sure I could bring myself to vote even for them. It's a reflex, I guess, like how one whif of peanut butter makes me throw up. Republicans are evil. They're the enemy. Even on the rare occasions when they are decent people, they are _not_ who one votes for. *sheepish grin* And I call myself mature and rational.

Sorry, but that's how I feel about it. Even though I know peanut butter is good for me, I can't eat it. Even though I know some Republicans are decent people, I can't vote for them. And, CFD endorsing Republicans would mean that I would eventually become too uncomfortable to stay.

I wonder if anyone else feels as I do?

Solidarity and Peace 
reply to this comment

 
If you are a Catholic 
Comment added by Unregistered on Wed 5 Jan 2005 - 06:16 h  
If you are a Catholic, your first responsibility is to your faith, not to your politics. How is voting for someone that doesn't support Kioto against the Catholic Faith? How is someone that supports having kids prosecuted as adults against your faith? How do you know that "we" Catholic Republicans are "evil"? Can you read our minds, get into our actions, read our intent? Isn't it a sin of it's own to make a statement about all of us, when you don't know us? You can make everything an issue if you want to, but why don't we pick the most important items of our faith, and then prove why they are the most important to us as Catholics and vote accordingly? 
reply to this comment

 
Catholic issues 
Comment added by hugetim on Wed 5 Jan 2005 - 11:09 h  
Re Kyoto: check out Global Climate Change: A Plea for Dialogue, Prudence, and the Common Good, A Statement of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops; or The Ecological Crisis: A Common Responsibility, Message of His Holiness John Paul II for the celebration of the WORLD DAY OF PEACE January 1, 1990.

Re "having kids prosecuted as adults": Responsibility, Rehabilitation, and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice, A Statement of the Catholic Bishops of the United States (references to Vatican statements within), from which the following is an excerpt:

"We bishops cannot support policies that treat young offenders as though they are adults. The actions of the most violent youth leave us shocked and frightened and therefore they should be removed from society until they are no longer dangerous. But society must never respond to children who have committed crimes as though they are somehow equal to adults—fully formed in conscience and fully aware of their actions. Placing children in adult jails is a sign of failure, not a solution. In many instances, such terrible behavior points to our own negligence in raising children with a respect for life, providing a nurturing and loving environment, or addressing serious mental or emotional illnesses." 
reply to this comment

Wasn't Congressman Smith a Democrat at one time? 
Comment added by Unregistered on Tue 28 Dec 2004 - 03:44 h  
Not to add more fuel to the fire, but wasn't Congressman Smith a Democrat who felt compelled to run as a Republican because of the moral meltdown of the Democratics into the Abortion Party? (This was way before the homosexual agenda popped up on the political radar screen as well.) 
reply to this comment

Response by Christopher Blosser (Catholics in the Public Square) 
Comment added by Unregistered on Wed 22 Dec 2004 - 11:51 h  
As author of the post, I would clarify that we didn't adamantly refuse to discuss issues "a site which explicitly chooses not to discuss issues not related to abortion or homosexuals." Rather, the focus of our blog is on Catholic figures with respect to their stance on what Catholic Answers' refers to as "'non-negotiable' moral principles that do not admit of exception or compromise." We took the same position with respect to Senator Kerry when -- as CatholicKerryWatch -- we argued that Senator Kerry's clear and blatant opposition to the Church's position on abortion, embroyonic stem-cell research, human cloning, and gay marriage conflicted with his claim to be a good Catholic. You may be interested in a post from last month in which I discussed why I decline to discuss "the war" or "social justice", and explained the specific focus of my posts in greater detail. God bless and Merry Christmas to you and yours! Christopher Blosser
Against The Grain ; Catholics in the Public Square 
reply to this comment

 
Welcome Christopher! 
Comment added by hugetim on Wed 22 Dec 2004 - 20:52 h  
We can certainly agree on this, that John Kerry does not appear to be a good Catholic who gives a "religious docility of the will and intellect" (LG #25) to the authoritative doctrine of the Church. I'll also grant that my language ("explicitly chooses not to discuss") was a bit flippant, though technically accurate (given that embryonic stem-cell research and human cloning are closely related to abortion).

In fact, I had the post you link to in mind when I wrote that. I found this part especially enlightening:
> My reluctance to judge Catholic candidates and politicians with
> respect to economic issues in the context of this blog should not be
> construed as a lack of concern. I try to give serious consideration
> to the social and economic policies put forth by the parties and
> political candidates, and trust my co-editors do as well. We all
> have bills to pay and families to worry about.

I was relieved at first because you seem to indicate that you did care about "other issues." But then you imply that your only concern about "economic issues" is with regard to your own family! To be fair, this is exactly the approach Democrats have taken lately, most notoriously Kerry, framing social justice issues in selfish rather than moral terms. But I wouldn't expect as much from an admirer of Cardinal Ratzinger.

I don't object to prioritizing life issues above other justice issues, but Catholics have a responsibility to hold their elected representatives accountable to the norms of Catholic Social Teaching (CST) as well (whether or not these issues affect their vote, our representatives should know where Catholics stand). It is no secret that "our social heritage is unknown by many Catholics" (Sharing Catholic Social Teaching, Reflections of the US Bishops), and I believe it is appropriate for websites like ours to help remedy this, as we strengthen support for right-to-life issues and a proper understanding of marriage. You are right to point out that the policy issues in question are complex, and there is much room for debate among Catholics equally concerned about the poor. Yet, this does not lessen our obligation to ask how much of a priority our legislators place on the poor. What will the effects of various proposals be on the marginalized? Is their effect on the needy front and center or a peripheral concern? Do they indicate their concern for the least in the way they speak about the benefits of proposed legislation? In the way they set funding priorities in the budget? If they oppose one proposal for meeting a need, do they propose or support an adequate alternative or explain how the need will be met? In any case, few would deny that the government is much more responsive to the desires of the wealthiest than to the needs of the poorest, and no Catholic may remain silent about this.

The thoughts of Novak and Hayek on social justice are interesting, but let's allow the Holy Father to get a word in edgewise: "How can it be that even today there are still people dying of hunger? Condemned to illiteracy? Lacking the most basic medical care? Without a roof over their heads?" (Novo Millennio Ineunte, no. 50) At issue is not only social justice but distributive justice, another key component of CST. "In teaching us charity, the Gospel instructs us in the preferential respect due the poor and the special situation they have in society: the more fortunate should renounce some of their rights so as to place their goods more generously at the service of others." (Peace on Earth, Pope Paul VI)

But what is most at issue in these discussions is the role of the government. We are fortunate to have guidance from the Magisterium on this: "As for the State, its whole raison d'etre is the realization of the common good in the temporal order. It cannot, therefore, hold aloof from economic matters. On the contrary, it must do all in its power to promote the production of a sufficient supply of material goods, 'the use of which is necessary for the practice of virtue.' It has also the duty to protect the rights of all its people, and particularly of its weaker members, the workers, women and children. It can never be right for the State to shirk its obligation of working actively for the betterment of the condition of the workingman." (Mother and Teacher, Pope John XXIII)

What rights, exactly, must the State protect for all people? "Beginning our discussion of the rights of the human person, we see that everyone has the right to life, to bodily integrity, and to the means which are suitable for the proper development of life; these are primarily food, clothing, shelter, rest, medical care, and finally the necessary social services. Therefore a human being also has the right to security in cases of sickness, inability to work, widowhood, old age, unemployment, or in any other case in which one is deprived of the means of subsistence through no fault of one's own." (Peace on Earth, Pope John XXIII)

All this is not to start a debate on the implications of CST for public policy--we can do that elsewhere. What I want to make absolutely clear is that there are implications, and any Catholic who neglects or denies them when evaluating politicians is undoubtedly in remiss. 
reply to this comment

 
Further Response from Christopher Blosser 
Comment added by Unregistered on Tue 28 Dec 2004 - 07:16 h  
Tim:

>I was relieved at first because you seem to indicate that you did
>care about "other issues." But then you imply that your only
>concern about "economic issues" is with regard to your own family!
>. . . framing social justice issues in selfish rather than moral terms.

Tim, we've barely met, so I'd ask you kindly not to read too much into that sentence, and to refrain from drawing such a character assumption about "my selfishness" based on your interpretation of my reference to "paying the bills."

How about a much more likely interpretation of that sentence, and actually intended: I (and I assume my co-editors) are not blogging from comfortable mansions in the Hamptons, and the specific focus of our blog on "the life issues" does not imply a lack of concern for the basic issues of economic welfare. (No need to read into it any more than that).

Michael Novak would certainly agree with the Holy Father (and encyclicals of previous popes) on the importance of attending to the material needs of the poor -- suffice to say that after reading his books, it's apparent that Novak has different ideas based on his experience about how those needs are met, and on the best means to combat society's ills.

Tim: >What I want to make absolutely clear is that there are implications,
>and any Catholic who neglects or denies them when evaluating
>politicians is undoubtedly in remiss.

I'll agree with you on this. While Catholics in the Public Square has a specific focus, our posts on any Catholic politician should not be construed as comprehensive 'evaluation' of a politician or the broad range of his policy decisions.

I'll end with a quotation from Cardinal Chaput (The King's Good Servant), who I quoted in my original article, and whose stance is one I'm hoping we can both agree upon:

The big picture depends on the small picture. No amount of good policy on immigration, or unemployment, or education, or housing, compensates for bad policy when it comes to deliberately killing the innocent -- beginning with the unborn. The right to life comes first. That's the priority. It's the foundation of every other right. Without it, every other right is built on sand.

Of course, if the right to life is the only issue Catholics focus on, that doesn't work either. In Genesis 9:5, God says, "From man, in regard to his fellow man, I will demand an accounting." James 2:15-17 says:

If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. . . . Catholics have the right and the obligation to demand that their public officials -- and their public policies -- should protect marriage and encourage family life; help the poor and homeless; promote economic justice both at home and abroad; and support the sick, the elderly, and children seeking a decent education. It's not enough to say, "Well, these are matters for private charity." Private charities in this country are already overwhelmed by the demand. For Catholics, it's completely proper for government to be involved in a serious way in solving these problems -- as long as the so-called solutions don't promote or allow killing the unborn and the weak.

Catholics in the Public Square | Against The Grain 

reply to this comment

 
Celebrate! 
Comment added by hugetim on Thu 30 Dec 2004 - 14:27 h  
Chris, I am very happy that we agree. I apologize for reading into one of your statements something you did not intend, but there is a common misunderstanding that concern about economic issues is of an exclusively self-interested nature. I must admit that I did not read your full excerpt from Cardinal Chaput in your original post. When I read it here, I concluded you must have used a different excerpt, but I checked and there it was: "...if the right to life is the only issue Catholics focus on, that doesn't work either...It's not enough to say, 'Well, these are matters for private charity.'" Thank you! For me, in all seriousness, the realization that you support these statements was a real moment for celebration in this joyous season.

My minor request is that you somehow make it explicit to visitors to "Catholics in the Public Square" that your omission of social justice, peace, and global solidarity issues does not indicate lack of real concern and interest, but merely a practical decision to focus on issues surrounding right-to-life and homosexuality. 
reply to this comment

I don't think Catholics in the Public Square have refused 
Comment added by Unregistered on Wed 22 Dec 2004 - 07:40 h  
I don't think they have actually refused to talk about other issues, it is that they don't get comments from others when they bring up other issues, so then there is no discussion. I love people that come to the Catholic boards I am on and disagree, because I learn from it. I learn the reasoning behind many of these principles, and I still disagree, but at least I see why they think these things. I know that David Schrader feels the same way. 
reply to this comment

 
Not true 
Comment added by hugetim on Wed 22 Dec 2004 - 11:35 h  
This post on "Catholics in the Public Square" is not an exception but the general rule, as you can see from the many links within. (None of these are from David, though I do think I've seen him express similar sentiments in the past. He has also shown much willingness to discuss other issues, however.)

> they don't get comments from others when they bring up other issues

Are you serious? I've seen innumerable lively discussions about war, taxation, and poverty on many other Catholic blogs. No, I'm pretty sure the reason they don't bring them up is either that they personally don't care, these issues are not important in their political ideology, or they don't acknowledge that there is authoritative Catholic doctrine concerning these issues. 
reply to this comment

Long list of accomplishments 
Comment added by Unregistered on Tue 21 Dec 2004 - 06:22 h  
I read with great interest his efforts in Congress. He really is a great Catholic Politician. He is the kind of person we should look for. One thing that we must all agree on though is what are really true Catholic convictions. Do you listen only to the Catechism? or Do you listen to the American Bishops? I say we stick to the Catechism. After all, whenever the Pope decides to speak with infallability on issues, a change is made to the Catechism. I personally support the Popes comments on the death penalty for example, but it would NOT stop me from voting for a candidate if he supports the death penalty, because the Pope has never seen fit to change the catechism to reflect his views. He added one extra sentence in 1997 to state that the reasons for the death penalty should be rare if not non existent, but the bulk of the death sentence entry was left the same, leaving it up to Governments to make the decisions. 
reply to this comment

 
We? 
Comment added by uinen on Mon 3 Jan 2005 - 19:38 h  
Hi Chris,

I do not wish to intervene in your discussion with Tim except to make one request.

If, as you apparently do, you wish to be considered part of the CFD community, please register.

Solidarity and Peace 
reply to this comment

 
I am not Chris 
Comment added by Unregistered on Wed 5 Jan 2005 - 06:21 h  
I am not Chris but I too will not register, because if you re read your first post, you have already resorted to name calling. You called Republicans "evil". I am not going to register on a site where people think I am evil. Certainly, I can get more accomplished if my ideas are put forth, without your preconceived ideas about me, and since I have been posting here for almost a year, I can tell you, that I have accomplished many things here. There are many of us that post here, and will not register for the same reason. I would prefer that you don't know if my responses are "Republican Evil" or if they are just for the benefit of Catholics. 
reply to this comment

 
Appropriate Response to Church Teaching 
Comment added by hugetim on Fri 24 Dec 2004 - 02:44 h  
You raise a critical issue for us to grapple with in the upcoming months: "what are really true Catholic convictions?"

I would suggest we search for candidates who demonstrate an appropriate response to Catholic teaching. As you may know, there are different gradations of Church teaching, which place somewhat different demands on believing Catholics. Dogma and "definitive doctrine," such as the bodily resurrection or the biblical canon, respectively, demand an act of faith from the believer in a special way. Many of the Church's moral teachings, of greater relevance in our context, fall under the category of "authoritative doctrine," to which Catholics are expected to give "a religious docility of the will and intellect" (Lumen Gentium #25). That is, believers are to strive to assimilate such a teaching, while recognizing the remote possibility of church error. (The inability to assent to such a teaching does not in itself separate one from the Roman Catholic Communion.) Finally, there is the category of "concrete applications of Church teaching, prudential admonitions and church discipline." A pertinant example is the welfare or health policy agenda of the US Catholic Bishops. It is possible for a Catholic to disagree with particular policy proposals, but the opinion of the bishops must be taken seriously, and the underlying "authoritative" teaching that every Christian bears a responsibility for the welfare of the poor must not be neglected.

With this understanding in mind, we need to look at all the issues and decide upon criteria for choosing candidates to support. Remember, our mission is not to develop minimal criteria for voting for a candidate but to develop a profile of the best candidate possible from a Catholic perspective. Given the nature of the "concrete applications" category of Church teaching described above, I would suggest we not insist on specific policy positions (such as those of the USCCB) in copmplex issue areas, but rather seek to determine whether a given politician's record and positions give evidence of the proper concerns and motivations, that is, of a compatibility with the "authoritative doctrine" of the Church which is more central to our Catholic faith.

For the record, I disagree with your characterization of Church teaching on the death penalty, but we can take that up elsewhere. 
reply to this comment

Post new comment
Your name:
Unregistered
Subject:
Comment:

Cry of the Poor
"How can it be that even today there are still people dying of hunger? Condemned to illiteracy? Lacking the most basic medical care? Without a roof over their heads? . . .


"Christians must learn to make their act of faith in Christ by discerning His voice in the cry for help that rises from this world of poverty."
-- Pope John Paul II
Novo Millennio Ineunte, no. 50

Support CfD
Give to the only effort I know of to find and support fully Catholic candidates.
Your contribution will pay for this website to continue, and for expanded outreach efforts as we build toward next election.

Or, pledge your support (time, prayer, spreading the word, etc.) by signing our petition.

Government Websites
The White House
U.S. Congress
U.S. Supreme Court
Republican Party
Democratic Party
Other Parties...

Relevant Catholic Weblogs
In Today's News: Progressive Catholic reflections
Disputations: Disciplined Catholic thought

Grassroots Politics: DFA
· Sleepless Winter Book Tour
· Daily News Roundup
· Hey, Remember the 'War on Terror'?
· HQ at Meetup
· Why I Must Object
· Listening to Citizen Voices
· Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones' Congressional Speech
· Snippets from the House and Senate
· Pelosi in the House
· Daily News Roundup

BBC News | Americas
· Soldier cleared in drowning case
· Familiar feel for NFL play-offs
· Davenport shelves retirement
· Pitt and Aniston announce split
· 'KKK man' accused of murders
· US reviews Iraq military strategy
· Sharks attacks terrorise Brazil
· Pentagon orders Iraq review
· US 'facing bigger bombs in Iraq'
· US firm 'bids for Lacroix label'

FactCheck.org
· FactCheck Subscribers Find Us Clear, Unbiased, Reliable and Useful
· Update: FactCheck.org Subscriber Survey
· FactCheck.org Subscriber Survey
· The Whoppers of 2004
· NRA Ad Falsely Accuses Kerry
· Kerry and Bush Mislead Voters With Promises of Energy Independence
· Would Kerry Throw Us To The Wolves?
· $8 Million Worth Of Distortions
· An Avalanche of Misinformation
· How Liberal is John Kerry?

Do Not Be Afraid

Have Mercy On Us
and on the
Whole World